Power Podcast – Episode 1 – Anthony Villis

Here it is, the inaugural episode of the POWER Podcast. Rob Schwarz and Scott Millar are joined by Anthony Villis, co-founder of First Wealth and aspiring triathlete. The Podcast shines a light on the mighty profession of Financial Planning and looks at those affecting positive change.

PFS Power · PFS Power Podcast – Episode 1 – Anthony Villis

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Rob & Scott talk to the head of their firm. Managing Director, Anthony Villis created First Wealth in 2009 with Director, Rob Caplan just after a financial crisis. Anthony talks about the goal of having great conversations with clients, helping them get from where they are to where they want to be. “Investing,” he says “is a very easy piece of the jigsaw now.”

Anthony talks about a modern, forward thinking business that transcends financial services. Not just a fanastic Financial Planning business that serves clients well but a fantastic business. Achieving B Corp certification is a key part of this.

There aren’t many careers where you need such a wide range of skills to be a really good financial planner. You’ve got to be a people person, charismatic, an entrepreneur, and you’ve got to understand economics, maths, coaching, the psychology of money.

For people who have helped along the way, Anthony mentions Paul Armson and Mitch Anthony having significant impact on the way First Wealth does things.
@InspiredAdviser @TheMitchAnthony https://www.lifecenteredplanners.com/

Transcript

Rob Schwarz 

Welcome to the PFS power podcast. I’m Rob.

Scott Millar 

And I’m Scott and we’re financial planners at First Wealth.

Rob Schwarz 

We’re excited by the impact that we financial planners can have on people’s lives and we want to know why financial planning isn’t the best known, best rated profession of our time.

Scott Millar 

In this power podcast, we talk to people we have seen affecting change in the financial planning space. We want to know what needs to be done. Why doesn’t everyone do it this way? And when will financial planning sit alongside the professions of medicine, law and accountancy.

Rob Schwarz 

We talked to the financial planning professionals who are defining breathing, living and loving their value driven client centric work.

Scott Millar 

I’m Scott, I joined First Wealth in 2018. I focused on attracting young clients such as social media influencers with unpredictable income streams, ensuring their long term financial well being is secure.

Rob Schwarz 

And I’m Rob I fell into financial services after I left uni and joined First Wealth back in 2017. With a team of three I look after 80 families making sure that every client has their own financial plan suited to their life goals. Together, we will shine the light on the people that are doing great things within this remarkable profession. All right, here we go, folks, the inaugural episode of the Power podcast and we are delighted to be joined by the one and only Anthony Villis, co-founder of First Wealth and aspiring triathlete. Welcome to the show. Anthony.

Anthony Villis

Good afternoon, gents. How are you both… very good. Well, I’m alright. Yeah, I’m pretty good. Yeah, pretty knackered. But yeah, I’m enjoying life enjoying working hard and training like a demon so it’s all good thank you.

Rob Schwarz 

Good man. Good man. And it’s it’s Shrove Tuesday, the day that we record this have you had your pancakes this morning?

Anthony Villis

No, I might make some out of Lego later on just just to sort of do that instead, just you know, add a little bit more difficulty to the challenge. But now I’m not a big pancake man. To be honest.

Scott Millar 

This wondering about the Lego as we were talking about Lego beforehand. AJ Anthony is now a fully certified eBay searcher of Lego for his daughter.

Anthony Villis

Yeah a lego blackbelt making all sorts of random Lego kits. I’m enjoying myself. So nice to be a downtime.

Rob Schwarz 

Good stuff. Great. Well, thanks for coming on. It’s great to have you here.

Scott Millar 

So AJ just goes basically straight into it. I know that we know who you are. I’m sure most of our listeners probably know who you are, as well. But can you give us a bit of background to yourself and how you ended up in the position that you’re in now?

Anthony Villis

Yeah, so well, Rob and co founded First Wealth in 2009, just after the financial crisis. My career in financial services started 25 years ago. So I started working at Chase De Vere in Bath, which is a great firm working with loads of great people had an amazing time learnt loads of good things about finance. built my career there took two or three years off to travel the world when I sort of needed a bit of a bit of a rest when I was about 30, which was fab came back did two or three years was an accountancy practice, and then decided that there was a better way after everything blew up in 2008. We thought right, Rob and I are going to have a go at doing this ourselves. So we set up First Wealth, which is what now 12 years ago, time flies.

Rob Schwarz 

Absolutely. Thanks for that. And I guess one of the questions from that is around, I mean, obviously worlds apart probably where we are now to where we were back then. But what noticeable differences can you see in the way that we do the job now compared to what it was like when you were back at chase?

Anthony Villis

Chase was good. I mean, they got a lot right. You know, that the advice was was very forward thinking in terms of what they want in terms of what they did, and the way it was centered around the client. But I think now everything is about really getting to clients goals, responsibilities, having those more detailed conversations about what’s going on their life. And then building the plan, building the strategy, building all the protection that goes around it, building the cash flow, and then delivering the advice or whatever that is. So I think it went much better as sort of that that conversation, the coaching side of things, and building plans and strategies and just being there as a partner for clients almost like someone is there is there holding their hand through the process and giving them the sort of sounding board when they require it. So I just think it’s more of a sort of collaboration now between good planners and clients and getting from people from where they where they are to where they want to be. So it’s a good place.

Scott Millar 

Definitely. Do you think there’s one part of that process that you’ve obviously gone into detail there that a lot of firms need to get better at, improve at? Obviously, the coaching part, you mentioned the wealth management part, Which part do you think most of these firms should be focusing on?

Anthony Villis

I think the investment piece is easy, because I think for us, we’ve sort of, again, we have our view on evidence based investing so there’s, that’s a very easy piece of the jigsaw now it’s like that’s the way to invest money. So therefore that leaves too, so it’s ether the coaching or it’s the financial planning bit. I think the two are equally important, I think the ability to have a conversation with clients and sort of talk to them and not just accept their first answer, necessarily and have the confidence to challenge people. And you know, what do you mean by that? or what does that What does good look like? So, that’s a skill in itself that comes with confidence. But also with the coaching, I think coaching of it is like, right, stay the course, believe in what we’re doing. A lot of that comes with experience and also confidence in trusting the process that that we go through. And I know we’ve spoken about this, Scott, that you believe in what we do. So to through our clients, when we had COVID. In, you know, the sort of a sell-off in April, you believe in what we’re doing. So it’s an easy conversation to have. And that comes across when you when you talk to clients they believe, and they know that what you’re talking about is the right thing to do. So I think probably planning, conversations and coaching equally important to say the investment piece is relatively straightforward and takes care of itself.

Rob Schwarz 

That’s a great answer. And obviously probably know about this, the Power podcast, what we’re trying to do here is all about shining a light on this mighty profession of ours and kind of looking at those people who are affecting positive change. So I just wanted to kind of jump into some of the things that that you’re specifically working on at First Wealth that you might be able to share with those around kind of effecting positive change in this space.

Anthony Villis

Yeah, well, I mean, I, you know, our goal, the sort of thing that gets me out of the morning is to make a sort of, to change the perception of financial planning. That’s what we’re, that’s, that’s our goal to do that. And there’s lots of different aspects to doing that. And I think one is just doing great work with clients, doing great planning, giving great advice, and just looking after our clients and then being advocates of what we have what we do. And I think that’s, that’s probably the most important thing, but I think it’s just evolved a little bit for that. I mean, I think if we genuinely want to make change, we need to build like the modern, forward thinking business that almost transcends financial services I want, I want people to look at First Wealth and go, that is a fantastic business, not a fantastic financial planning business, if that kind of makes sense. So how do we do that we need to bring brilliant people into the business. We’ve talked about a lot about culture, about trusting the team about flexible working arrangements, about empowering you guys to do build your career and the nurses to support you. I think that’s a hugely important part. That’s something we spent a lot of time over the last 12 months. But we, you know, obviously, we got our B Corp certification last summer, I think has given us an amazing framework as well to help improve the business. So how do you look after your clients? How do you look after your team? What’s your impact on the environment? What are you doing about that? Now, what is the impact you have on your local community? What’s your social impact as a company? And how do you govern yourself as well. So all this stuff basically provides a framework, things like diversity and inclusion, it’s all of those things that are important to go. That is what good business looks like. It’s not just about making profit. It’s about all of those positive impacts as well. So my time is almost spent exclusively thinking about how we can do all of those things better. Because I want people to look at our business and go I want to work for First Wealth, because that is the future of financial planning. And by doing that, we get great people in the business, and that helps us move the whole profession forward.

Rob Schwarz 

Yeah, great stuff. Definitely. Again, probably a follow on just from that one was around the you know, it sounds as though this kind of bigger picture stuff is only is what all companies arguably should be doing. Right? focusing on the culture in the business, the staff, diversity inclusion. What was your thoughts on why everyone isn’t doing it like this?

Anthony Villis

Um, it’s a good question. Because it’s something really that it was kind of like someone took about Shrove Tuesday. So I’m like, hit me with a sort of frying pan around the head about 12 months ago, or maybe 18 months ago said right, you need to this is, this is what good business looks like. So it took me nine years to work out. I think there’s an element that you sort of go down the hole, right? You go down the hole of financial planning is like, right, what does good financial planning look like? And it’s it takes time, like, how do you do your cash flow? How do you do your questions? How do you train your team? How do you put in place the process? How do you invest your money? How do you do the evidence based investing? How do you do coaching, that takes a load of time and I think there’s an element of until you’ve sorted that out? You it’s almost you almost there isn’t any sort of ability or time to look anything else? Because that’s what you do, though, we need to be good financial planners first. Once we’ve sorted that out, we can then look a bit wider and go right, what else is there that needs to be done? So I think we just spent a lot of time and not just asked, I guess other companies still looking at whether their financial services other stuff is, are they totally on top of their service or goods, whatever they’re providing, and once they got to the stage, they feel confident that that’s as good as it can be, there’s always room for improvement, then it’s like right, how do we now build a business that does good things and is going to be the sort of the future proof business so I just think it’s you know, there’s there are lots of distractions, but a lot of those just yet making sure that your actual day to day stuff is as good as it can be first.

Scott Millar 

Definitely, what would you say to the firms that sort of aren’t looking at the bigger picture stuff now are thinking about taking that plunge into looking at their business as a whole. Would you say it’s worthwhile to them to look at doing this and just take the leap?

Anthony Villis

I think is massive. Personally, I, you know, again, I can sort of speak for myself. And I can also speak for what I see going on in the company. I mean, personally, I absolutely love it, you know, I’m like, I’m sort of getting the energy. It’s like, almost like having a new career. It’s kind of like, right, I’ve done financial planning for 25 years. Now, this is a thing for me, right? How do you run? And how do you think about what are the big trends that are going on? So there’s a lot of upskilling, you need to learn a lot of stuff as well, which again, I, you know, I love learning, I love reading books. And there’s all these things to be thinking about. So that is a really positive thing. So for me, personally, I bring energy, and I’m learning and I think that comes across into the business I, I think I can inspire the team of First Wealth in a way, again, that we are doing good work at financial planning, and we want to continue to do that and get better and help impact more and more clients lives. But there is a bigger picture here. And I do think the team are more inspired by that. Because you can see what we’re trying to achieve as a company. It goes beyond financial planning. And I think it just, it gives the gives energy. I mean, I you know, I, I cannot think of a where we’ve had more positive energy in the business than now. And bearing in mind, which is going through is quite, that’s quite a big thing, really to be able to say that.

Rob Schwarz 

Yeah, absolutely know for sure. That’s a great answer. And then I guess they it kind of comes back to that point, doesn’t it that the person or the people who are effecting that positive change really do need to believe in it? And the ones who are at the helm kind of making those sorts of decisions? I guess that does it tie into one kind of overriding goal for First Wealth as a business as an entity going forward is that kind of, you know, all of these different parts that we pulled together? I mean, one of the initiatives around kind of, you know, planting trees for new clients, and carbon offsetting, and all of these different bits, how do they pull together to kind of help with any kind of overriding goal that you’ve got in mind for the business?

Anthony Villis

I think that’s a good question. I think, as I say that B Corp framework, is there really? And it’s basically to say, right, what is every aspect of what we do? And how we can do it better? So if we’re looking at financial planning, right, how do we become better financial planners? You know, there’s a load of stuff I can think of there around, how do we, how do we link back, you know, the goals and responsibilities back to the ongoing sort of reviews and making sure clients are seeing the big picture? And how do we report on that? And how do we measure the impact on clients lives as well. So, you know, we all know that measuring returns isn’t really going to impact, you know, get a great 5% return this year, that’s not really impactful in terms of how is it affected clients lives? But how do you look at peace of mind confidence, you know, clarity? How do we measure those things as the challenge, environmental, right, here’s a framework where are we doing about carbon footprint, most rural setting? What can we do better? You know, things like the flexible working arrangements, cutting down on travel is huge. You know, social impact, let’s talk about money, the education stuff we want to do. So it’s kind of a, here are five, five parts to it team, you know, clients, the sort of governance side of it social impact as well. And then how do we do each one of those better. So that’s, that’s it. And I guess the point with that is, if you do all if you are trying to get better at everything moving in there in your talk about moving in the right direction, if we move in the right direction, in terms of everything we’re doing, we are going to be a better business. But the overall goal is just to create a really great business. That is great at what we do, but it treats everyone with respect. And it’s fun to be part of.

Scott Millar 

100% 100%. As one of the things that we want to talk about now is around us being young financial planners, ourselves, we want to obviously inspire the next generation of financial planners who are coming through to actively pick financial planning that we’re talking about as a bona fide profession, like law, medicine, accountancy, how do we go about doing that? What do you think the first sort of first sort of change that we need to make is?

Anthony Villis

I think we just I think we’re still kind of doing it. I think probably the thing is, is happening day to day anyway, you guys are doing it. And there are young financial planners across the whole of the country that are doing it day to day anyway, right? You need to we need to be able to magnify that voice and get more people looking at it going. That looks like a pretty cool profession. I genuinely again, I think now that there is a change, I think, I think maybe changing with younger people genuinely, or maybe the whole COVID things and then impact. But I think more and more people want to do something have a career that adds value, now I think about some of the jobs from the past, which like, you know, it’s all about making money. There’s no there’s no social purpose. There’s no end goal, no one’s benefiting from it. It’s a sort of zero sum game. And I think that’s a bit silly that people will still pursue that. But I think there’s definitely a desire for people to do positive stuff. We know that what we do is massively positive, helping clients changing people’s lives with fantastic financial planning. So the other thing that interests me is that there aren’t many careers I don’t think where you need such a wide range of skills to be able to be a really good financial planner. And that’s why the great financial planners are like the sort of the Golden unicorns, they’re not very, there’s not many of them around. You know, you’ve got to have that sort of, to be a people person, you’ve got to have that sort of charismatic approach. You’ve got to be an entrepreneur, you’ve got to understand economics and mass coaching. And there’s there’s loads to his psychology of money. So if you appeal to the next generation and guy right here is a job that is quite difficult, but has massively positive implications around who you’re doing it again, if it was me, I’d play right you show me something’s difficult, I’m gonna do it. That’s what I fancy having a go at something difficult. And if I’ve got the brains to do it, then I might choose that so I think it’s about just raising the volume about what we’re doing all the good stuff that’s going in on a professional side, I see it and I, I go but I you know, the amount of people are like students on LinkedIn now looking and talking to me, I that wasn’t that wasn’t even a thing like three or four years ago, I don’t think students will think, gee, maybe I was missing it. But I get I must get a daily message from someone who’s studying at university that I like what you’re doing, I see what you’re doing. So it’s happening. We just need to make that go faster, and harder and sort of louder, so that we should we should make that happen.

Rob Schwarz 

Yeah, that’s awesome. I think it’s good. You’re right. I mean, think about kind of myself and how I fell into the profession, which is probably similar for a lot of our listeners, you know, is kind of that what seems to happen, you just stumble on financial planning. And it’s like, I didn’t realise that was even a career. It’s never spoken about a school or university. It was never something that we were actively spoken to about, like law or accountancy or even medicine, right. So the kind of thing you mentioned about the unicorns there and having to have that, that that that kind of skill set in order to be great at what we do, that this stigma that we have around financial advisors, that nurses aren’t necessarily the unicorns but the cowboys or the kind of scammers that are out there, this kind of negative rhetoric that kind of comes with fun at some financial advisors out there, that I’ll ever disappear, or do you reckon it’s just part and parcel of the industry

Rob Schwarz 

that we’re in? Is, is I think we I don’t worry about it too much. Because whatever it is, right? If you think about lawyers, you can think about bad stories about lawyers. Yes, you can. Can you think about medical people, surgeons where there’s bad stories? scammers, yes, you can. Can you think a bit about financial planners? Yes, you can, you can think of any profession, and there’s bad dodgy bad people out there. So I think we have come from a background that, you know, back in back in the day, even 10, 15, 20 years, there’s so much garbage that was going on. And so clients have got, you know, they have got a guarded opinion, maybe of financial services generally. So would it ever disappear? No. Is it disappearing? Yes. Do I feel proud to be a financial planner? 100%? Did I feel proud to be a financial planner? 10 years ago? Not so sure. So that probably tells you the direction of travel that where I am at the moment. And I think you know, if I ask you guys, are you proud of what you do day to day? I hope you’re gonna say yes. Because you, you know, you, you get you know, the stuff you get on Google the reviews? You guys get that? You know, if that doesn’t make you feel proud of what you do, then then nothing’s going to is it?

Rob Schwarz 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Scott Millar 

You mentioned before AJ about culture and how we can obviously bring young people into the profession. What do you look for from someone? If your style, what do you prefer to hire from people that are starting out? Or do you prefer to hire experienced advisors? What is there a Do you have a preference?

Anthony Villis

The preference has been to train people really to take people with no experience and sort of bring them through the ranks, you know, like you guys have done sort of come in and sort of do sort of client relationship management, some sort of technical analysts work and then become planners and trainee planners and come through. Why do I like that? I guess it gives us the ability to sort of shape your career around what First Wealth believes in, you don’t come with any preconceived ideas about what good or bad looks like. So that’s quite important. I’m also skeptical that people, I think there’s a lot of experienced planners out there who, who aren’t really planners, you know, they, they, they’re, they’re from a different breed. So they come with experience. And I’m always slightly skeptical about the value that they will add over someone we train ourselves. And that’s not obviously not true of everyone, but from interviews I’ve had in the past, it’s the this is who I am, what do you want to pay me sort of thing. Well, let me ask you what value you’re going to add to our business. And that’s when the problems started. So I would personally I think I’m also slightly biased because obviously I came from Chase de Vere where that was their business model. They took lots of youngsters and train them through and you know, a lot of those financial planners now are absolutely at the top of their profession because you know, see them running business right through the country and they’ve worked for that company. And I think obviously, we knew that that I’ve seen that work. So I’m always open to conversations. If someone’s good, and they want to have a chat with me, then let me know. But, I think our model is working well at the moment. So we will keep going as we are.

Scott Millar 

On that place. AJ just quickly. Yes, you mentioned there about LinkedIn and people contacting you directly, etc. I’ve had a couple of people myself have read the blogs that we’ve done, where we’re talking about younger advisors like me and Schwarzy. And they’ve mentioned that they struggle sometimes because trainee financial planner roles, they want someone to be already qualified, etc. What do you think someone like that needs to do to stand out just to get an opportunity to get through the door? Is it messaging you directly? Is it showing they’ve had some sort of experience? They’ve got a keen interest?

Anthony Villis

Well, it’s a good question. So, I’m sort of smiling to myself, because it was only because I saw a LinkedIn post. The reason I’m trying to get into financial planning, therefore, I don’t have any experience. So perhaps, it’s down to the companies to maybe when they’re advertising for roles, we’re looking for someone to come into this profession who doesn’t have experience, rather than you need to pass your exams, you need to be chartered, you need to have 25 years experience without weighing in. I mean, I’m just a university students. So that’s not I’m only actually 21 years old. So that’s maybe the companies that need to have a think about how they’re advertising for this stuff. But yeah, we know that, that we’ve got a couple of the team who’ve taken on now that they’ve contact us LinkedIn, they’ve sort of made communication via that. I like what you guys are doing, I welcome the opportunity to have a chat. I mean, my view has always been that we, if someone good comes and we can fit him in, we fit him in. Just because that’s how it should be rather than waiting to go right, we definitely need to get someone for this role. And then advertising, which we obviously do that as well. But if someone comes knocking, that’s good, and we look and think that person’s up for it, and we’ll, we’ll bring them in. So yeah, reach out and communicate with good firms you like, you know, see if you can have a contact with some of the business owners find out a little bit about it, I think the profession is very sharing as well. I think there’s a lot of good people who are willing and happy to give time to do the right thing. So yeah, don’t be fearful to send a message and just to make contact with with companies that you like the look of,

Rob Schwarz 

Yeah that’s a good one. And for any of our listeners who might be starting out in the profession, or a firm, maybe where they don’t feel like they’re completely, you know, aligned with the goals or the values of the business. Can you give any advice for those people want one piece of helpful advice that that from your experience, you could give the people that are either starting out or kind of stuck in a position at the moment where they might not like it so much.

Anthony Villis

That’s a good one, it’s a tough one, because you need to I said, the first thing I would do is you need to, I would probably recommend, you just need to upskill yourself, you need to just immerse yourself in information, like books and podcasts and learning about what financial planning really looks like. You know, and then potentially, you can make communication with companies that you like the look or find out a little bit more about study what they’re looking for, what are they putting out on their blogs, or on their websites, you just upskilling yourself? Because then you’ve got the ability, right? If you’re working in a company is not doing financial planning. Potentially you can create change in that business. Now you but you need to present a case, you need to say, look, this is what maybe a slightly different way of doing things. Is there any appetite for embracing some of this stuff? Because it might be that the business owners have completely open minded and go yeah, that’s a great way to do so that ability to create cultural change in an existing firm is massively powerful. If they just sort of look at you as if you’re sort of talking a foreign language and go all the way on earth you want about, there might be maybe it might be time to move on. But I think the first bit would be to really get your head around what financial planning really looks like upskill yourself and then look at it in context of what you’re doing at the moment. Is there a massive change? And then how can you evoke change if it needs to happen?

Rob Schwarz 

Yeah,that’s a great one. So we’ve got a couple of quickfire questions. Just to finish off. First one, I’ll go first is around. We spoken about COVID a few times, there’s obviously loads of negativity, and it’s impacted everyone’s lives. But what we want to do is flip that on its head instead. So what one positive change or one positive thing can you take away from this pandemic, either in work or all life?

Anthony Villis

There’s loads, so you want one I just think the ability to sort of you know, we’ve all reacted to working remotely. And we’ve realized that we can run a business that allows us to have more time to do the things we want to do to have more time with our family to provide as good a service if not better. I just think it’s a vision of the future I don’t think I’ll go back to the way I was running up and down to London every five minutes. I just think that’s never changed. So I think for me, I think for you guys as well. It’s like this is you know, he’s given us an opportunity to see see a world in a way that would probably never have ever happened. I kind of likewise from a work setup. So I think this is it is done. Now this is the way we’re going to be working going forward.

Scott Millar 

PFS podcast is all about adding, sharing and adding light on people that are doing good things in our profession. Is there any individuals or businesses that you think should just be recognised for the good things that they’re doing at the minute?

Anthony Villis

Um, yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s loads of people, and I feel a bit. I feel a bit awful sort of calling people out. I mean, I think, I think I think Paul Armison and Mitch Anthony, I think deserve a mention. I think, Paul, you know, I’m quite happy to say that, you know, inspired Rob and I to sort of change the way we were doing things. So those guys had a significant impact on our, on us as individuals in our business, I think Sharon Sutton who set up the PFS power panel, I think she deserves massive credit, because there’s some huge amounts of work again, you probably referenced it. But if anyone hasn’t seen the content on PFS Power, if you Google PFS power, then there’s loads of amazing content. Anyone on that journey if you’re wanting to get better in sort of forming a community of people looking to improve the profession, is this huge. You know, I, you know, I’ve got a great amount of time for people like paradigm Norton, Barry Horner, who, you know, well, we’re working with some of the stuff on in EQ investors, other fellow B corps as well. So we’re doing some stuff around, you know, understanding our carbon footprint. There’s a lot of great firms who are out there, and a lot of great phones that are happy to share information and knowledge. So yeah, those, there are a few, but there are there, there are hundreds.

Rob Schwarz 

Awesome. And finally, if there’s anyone that’s inspired by this podcast that wants to get in touch, what’s the best way for people to connect you?

The best place is probably just a little tag me on LinkedIn and send me a message on there. So yeah, I’m on LinkedIn a lot, as you know. So you’ll find me pretty easily. So send me a message. And I will, I will promise to get back to you.

Rob Schwarz 

All right, lovely stuff Anthony Villis It’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much for coming on the inaugural power podcast with us today.

Anthony Villis

Thank you very much for having me guys. Cheers. Thank you.